Mackenzie Dern was widely expected to face the dominant former UFC strawweight champion, Zhang Weili, in her first title defense. She instead finds herself matched against fellow jiu-jitsu ace Gillian Robertson at UFC 330 on Aug. 15.
Dern, 33, claimed the vacant 115-pound throne in Zhang’s absence at UFC 321 last October, scoring a decision win over Virna Jandiroba and setting Dern up for a potential clash with a returning Zhang, who left the division in 2025 in pursuit of flyweight gold. Zhang ultimately came up short against pound-for-pound queen Valentina Shevchenko, but her departure nonetheless opened the door to strawweight’s top contenders, and Dern capitalized.
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Where does that leave Zhang at present? Dern has no idea, she revealed Monday on “The Ariel Helwani Show.”
“I can’t give you that response. I don’t know,” Dern told Uncrowned when asked why that fight isn’t happening next. “They were talking about Weili. They had mentioned [UFC] Macau, then the White House, [then] New Jersey. So I’m not sure what happened or what’s going on, but they came back with Gillian Robertson, I think, after her win against Amanda Lemos [in March]. … I’m not sure what the deal with Weili is or what is happening.”
Ultimately, Dern isn’t upset by the delay in facing an all-time great.
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The nature of Dern’s title victory and Zhang’s looming presence over the division have drawn criticism, since the former jiu-jitsu phenom never beat the former champ. But unless the critique is coming from fellow champions, Dern isn’t bothered, she said.
“I would be excited to fight her, but not in a pressure way, like I need to prove it to people,” Dern said. “A lot of people say I’m not the champ because I didn’t beat her. For me, it would just be an honor, and I’d really like to test myself. It would be amazing to beat her, but if I have six more months or however many title fights I can get in and just get better and better and be more prepared to fight her, I’m excited for that.”
Perhaps more bothersome for the strawweight champion is how her next foe, Robertson, has spoken of her in recent years.
As one of the most decorated pure jiu-jitsu players in MMA history, Dern has always been a feared threat on the mat. However, as her levels of competition intensified throughout her UFC career, submissions have become rarer for Dern, while Robertson ascended to become the UFC’s all-time leader in that category among women with seven.
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With that in mind, Dern is motivated to become only the second fighter to submit Robertson and simultaneously score her own sixth UFC submission win.
Mackenzie Dern won the vacant UFC strawweight championship in October.
(Jeff Bottari via Getty Images)
“I’d definitely like to submit her, just because she’s kind of been someone who’s been talking so much about submissions, and she’s kind of been comparing herself a lot to me even before I was the champion. Just that she has more submissions than me and stuff like that,” Dern said.
“She’s never really been someone that I’ve paid attention to. I don’t know if it’s because she was in the 125 [pound] division or what, but definitely, the fact that she has this whole thing about being the best submission artist and stuff like that is just kind of like — I don’t know, I just feel like she’s kind of thrown a little bit of shade, or putting down my accomplishments in jiu-jitsu as if I’m not this good jiu-jitsu fighter. So I’d definitely like to submit her. That would be amazing, and I’m obviously trying to get my submissions up and have the most submissions.”
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Dern hasn’t necessarily viewed Robertson’s comments over the years as a lack of respect. But if the challenger isn’t cognizant of the champion’s skill set, it’ll be a big mistake, warned Dern.
“It would be super crazy if she didn’t respect me,” Dern said. “I know she has these [UFC] submissions, but I’ve never seen her at any IBJJF tournaments, ADCC, or the World Pro tournaments. I’ve competed my whole life since I was five, started training when I was three. There’s no way she can’t respect me.
“I think she has more MMA fights than I do, so she probably believes her jiu-jitsu is more adaptable to MMA. But I’m down for everything. I’m down for striking, for wrestling, judo, the cage, ground-and-pound, grappling, everything. I’m not going to say it’s impossible [for her to submit me], because I’ve seen black belts get submitted by blue belts in MMA. I wasn’t able to submit Yan Xiaonan in 25 minutes and she was a white belt, so I know everything comes into place.”
Funnily enough, Robertson’s current five-fight UFC win streak has come without a single submission, bouncing between decisions and knockouts. Robertson’s wrestling has also been on full display, adding to her overall ground game.
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Dern said she expects Robertson to use a similar game plan and approach as Jandiroba did in their recent title rematch. Obviously, that didn’t work in Jandiroba’s favor.
“I feel like she’s going to do what Virna did, but better,” Dern said. “Try to get a takedown and just stay on top for the whole round and be safe, and win it like that. But I’m really focused on winning the fight as a whole and not stealing the rounds. I’m going out there to really feel why I’m the champion, and why I do have good submissions, and why I’m a good fighter.
“I think [Robertson] has good submissions against MMA girls. I don’t think she’d be able to hang with my training [partners]. I’m training with the top girls in IBJJF jiu-jitsu black-belt level right now. That’s like all my training partners. So jiu-jitsu to jiu-jitsu, I don’t see Gillian having that type of jiu-jitsu level. I don’t even know what her belt is.
“But she has beaten girls who have beaten me,” Dern continued. “She has heart, and she has a team behind her. I’ve lost to white belts before in MMA. I think it wouldn’t be smart for her to get involved in a jiu-jitsu exchange with me, which is why I think she’ll try to get a takedown and stay safe, maybe try to ground-and-pound and get some damage and win the rounds like that. Which is, hey, if you get the win, you get the win. But we’re definitely going to try and not let that happen.”
Dern (1) will extend her own win streak to four with a successful first title defense against Robertson. The matchup is also an undeniable step up for Robertson, who hadn’t been booked for a five-round bout prior to UFC 330.
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In the end, Dern expects to get a finish sometime down the stretch — whether it’s the submission she desires.
“I feel like it’s going to go to the fourth and fifth round just because I don’t know if she’s ever done five rounds,” Dern said. “So I’m excited to go out there and — I just really want to tear her down slowly and not have pressure to do anything [crazy]. So if we do go to the ground, I think the submission can come sooner, but I think I’ll get my hand raised in the fourth or fifth round. I don’t know how, though.”
